Kilmatogh

Place to discuss the Kilmatogh Community and its strange disappearance.


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The Mystery starts here!

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76 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:28 pm

These are the houses the fabled XUAL Community lived in? Then they must have applied for planning permission and submitted plans to the County Council. I bet Leitrim Co.Co. still has those development plans (or at least digital versions stored on their servers). Might be a good source of information regarding the layout and size of the site, what the facilities were, how the whole place looked? Worth a try.

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77 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:31 am

That's a very good suggestion, Kidrotten. I wonder can John get a copy of these plans and somehow upload them so that we all can see them on the forum?

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78 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:07 pm

J.Howey

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I've already written to Leitrim County Council asking them to send me any information they have on the former site. I bet they'll be looking for money for the info too.  Btw, I haven't talked with the Parish Priest yet, but I will soon. I've made an appointment.



Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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79 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:57 pm

I've been away a few days and you chaps have made enormous progress without me. Oh my, I feel as if I've missed a lot of the fun! I'm surprised nobody yet has tried to explain the place name of Kilmatogh! Well, let me be the one to do it (well part of it, anyway): In Irish “kil” or "cil" is a church (think of Kilpatrick), “má” is a plain (example would be Moy), but the meaning of “togh” has always alluded me. I'm not a native speaker, that's probably why I never got it. As you probably learnt in school, many of the current place names in Ireland are anglicised versions of how the original Irish or Gaelic names were pronounced. Settlers from Great Britain would record these places by writing them phonetically in English without the slightest idea of what they actually meant in the original Gaelic. Anyway, I  hope J.Howey is making a start on his book because I really want to read it. HINT, HINT!
My best,
Dan.

EDIT: Note that "kil" may not be "church" as is usually translated, because the English may have heard "coill" meaning "woodland", and wrote it down as "kil". It's estimated at least 700 of the "kil(l)-" placenames in Ireland, usually taken to mean "church", may actually refer to woods that no longer exist. (P.W. Joyce, The Origin and History of Irish Names of Places)



Last edited by DanTheMan on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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80 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:01 am

Haha! I utterly agree with you about the book, Dan! You haven't missed much, I'm sure there's still a lot of the mystery to uncover. We still haven't cracked the core of this case yet!

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81 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:10 am

The contributions are slow coming in, but they're allowing us to make progress, nonetheless. We'll crack this case, don't worry, SusanaB. Many heads are better than one, isn't that what they say? For example, it took me all of two minutes to find out the meaning of Dan's elusive “togh” word on en.wiktionary.org/wiki/togh
Irish
Etymology

From Middle Irish togaid, from Old Irish do·goa, from Proto-Celtic *to-guso-, from Proto-Indo-European *ǵews-. Compare Scottish Gaelic tagh.

Verb
togh ‎(present analytic toghann, future analytic toghfaidh, verbal noun toghadh, past participle tofa)
1. choose, select
2. elect
3. sort, gather

Related terms

togha m ‎(“pick, choice”)

Mutation
Irish mutation


Radical: togh   Lenition: thogh    Eclipsis: dtogh

Note: Some of these forms may be hypothetical. Not every possible mutated form of every word actually occurs.

References
"togh" in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla, An Gúm, 1977, by Niall Ó Dónaill.

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82 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:15 am

You're dead right, Mary...and you've just proven it here!

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83 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:32 am

You see, it takes a younger, faster mind to solve these problems. I'm a bit too old to even consider looking up the word on the internet. There's me with my dusty old books struggling with the confusion of translating English from the Irish. Score one for the modern netizen.

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84 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:31 am

I took a leaf out of J.Howey's book and uploaded the XUAL application form on Scribd, you can find it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/319817071/XUAL-Membership-Application-Form
My best,
Frank



Last edited by MetaMur on Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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85 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:37 am

Finally! I couldn't post the whole weekend, I kept getting redirected to some dreadful porn site the minute I signed in. The site must have been hacked or something?!

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86 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:04 am

You too? Darn porn pops up on my computer nearly every day... and that's even when I'm not looking for it! lol!

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87 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:19 am

J.Howey

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Sorry for delay in posting sooner. Anyway, I ended up not getting much out of the Parish Priest when I went to see him. He said that I could find something interesting in the library - in the Local Studies section - if I "knew what to look for". He told me there was a box with one particular edition of the Leitrim Gazette; one that had been "recalled from the shops" by the printers before it got sold to the public.
The library always gets a copy of the local paper (which the printers apparently forgot to recall). This particular copy was dated July 22nd, 1982. The articles covered were the usual social events, pie recipes and adverts for animal feeds. I got bored and was nearly about to give up looking through it, when I found the rather ominous story about Kilmatogh Community's demise....




Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

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88 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Those idiots used explosives and blew up the whole damn community? They killed everyone! You should go to the national news with this. Hell I'd write to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. This is big, man! Really, really big!

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89 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:47 pm

Good Lord, those poor unfortunate people!

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90 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:54 pm

J.Howey

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I've written to the Gardaí requesting to meet with them regarding this. We'll see what they say.



Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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91 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:56 pm

Are you serious? I've a bad feeling about this! Don't meet with them, man.

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92 Guidelines leaflet? on Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:17 am

MetaMur wrote:Applicants for Registered membership should carefully read the current guidelines and criteria for Registered membership in the leaflet provided.
Do you have the leaflet showing the guidelines and criteria that the form mentions, MetaMur? It's not on Scribd or have you yet to upload it?

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93 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:13 pm

Hi, Mary, my dear. I'm afraid I don't have the membership guidelines leaflet. I remember it was one of those tri-fold flyers. Not very conspicuous. I must have thrown it out thinking it was a take away menu. But I'm glad I've kept what little I have for the past 40 years. Who knew it would come in handy someday? I certainly didn't!

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94 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:51 pm

J.Howey

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Hi all, sorry for the delay getting back on here. Unfortunately, I'm not having any luck with the Gardai trying to arrange a meeting with them to discuss the events leading to the fire on Kilmatogh bog.
Some good news is: I've heard back from the planning section of Leitrim County Council who still have the development file for the Community in Kilmatogh.
They scanned a copy for me of the proposal (or should I say defense!) of the development written by Malcolm Cassin himself sometime during 1974. Here it is: https://www.scribd.com/document/318928300/XAUL-Community-Planning-Document
BTW thank you very much MetaMur for posting your copy of the XUAL application form, it makes for interesting reading. Obviously they were after only trained scientists for registered membership -not the Average Joe, as we surmised earlier. I wonder if the Leitrim Gazette article printed in the recalled issue was talking about the registered members in the Community when it stated: "He focused on marginalized people that society wanted nothing to do with: the drunks, drug addicts, and the homeless." I highly doubt it. Any thoughts?



Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:27 pm; edited 3 times in total

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95 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:09 pm

I reckon the newspaper article was referring to the guinea-pigs Malcome and his scientist colleagues used for their experiments in the settlement!
BTW, that's a really cool development file you got from Leitrim County Council there, John!



Last edited by Kidrotten on Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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96 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:22 pm

J.Howey

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Haha! Probably, Kidrotten!
Oh and I got a letter from the Guards this morning, they're not willing to discuss the matter of the fire in Kilmatogh that killed everyone in the XUAL Community that night (See their letter here: https://www.scribd.com/document/322388434/Letter-From-Gardai)
In the envelop they sent me out 'biographical affidavit' files which were submitted by the original founders of the Community as Character Evidence. Interesting reading. I'll try to scan them to pdf and then post a link on here when I get them uploaded to Scribd (so everyone else can read them as well).



Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:40 pm; edited 3 times in total

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97 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:18 pm

Any further updates, John? Did you get those "character evidence" files scanned yet?

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98 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:16 pm

J.Howey

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Hi, Kidrotten, I'm still in info-gathering mode and don't have anything new to share. I uploaded the bio-affidavits of the XUAL Community founders to Scribd. You can read them here: https://www.scribd.com/document/320812779/XUAL-Community-Founders-Bio-Affidavit).



Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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99 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:03 pm

That's good stuff, John. I'm guessing you have nearly all the background information to finally start writing your book?

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100 Re: The Mystery starts here! on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:58 pm

J.Howey

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Yep, SusanaB. I've started working on the plan for the book's layout, which follows the usual format:

Title page (should include the title, sub-title, author)
Copyright page (shows the copyright notice, publisher’s name, ISBN, name of the editor, designer, photographer, etc., as appropriate)
Contents page (gives list of chapters with a corresponding page number).
List of maps and illustrations (a list might be beneficial to the reader).
Preface (sets out why and how a book is written).
Acknowledgements (page to acknowledge the people and institutions that have assisted in a book’s publication)
Introduction (introductory matter)
Text (main body of the book divided into chapters)
Endmatter (the endmatter or conclusion)
Appendixes (appendix matter, e.g. Appendix A, B, etc.).
Glossary (a list of technical terms and definitions alphabetically ordered—either by word or by letter)
Bibliography (the bibliography of books and online sources used in the production of the book).


To produce the physical tome, I'm going the route of self-publishing but I haven't yet established a timeline or full production cost (I'll need to pay for an editor and a graphic designer to design the cover). Other details of the physical book should be:

Format: A5
Paper stock: 80 gsm (grams per square metre)
Page extent: 140 pp (pages)
Cover: 150 gsm card
Total print run: 250 copies.


This is my first time writing a book (much less a history book), and publication seemed (until quite recently) beyond my reach. Publishing was as mysterious a process as any and I lacked confidence in my ability to produce a work that's acceptable to potential readers. I guess only time will tell if I can pull it off. So, what do you think?



Last edited by J.Howey on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

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